Curse

Killed u man · Jun 02, 2010, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Making this thread to practice my English writing (which has only gotten better over the past 5 years), to create some discussion on what the consensus of the current HA community is, to give my 2 cents and simply for the lulz.

Skill Updates

I would like to deal with several problem builds in HA, aswell as certain problem skills which have been gotten abused for way to long now. Pretty much all of these changes won't affect the rest of PvP in a negative way, and some will even provide new viable options in other formats. (Such as Divert Hexes)

Falling Lotus Strike: 50% failure < 4 critical strikes (BBway, Rt/A way)
"Coward!": add "If target foe isn't KD'd from this skill, this skill is disabled for 3 seconds."
Wounding Strike: 5 second recharge.
Brutal Weapon: increase cast time to 2 seconds, reduce duration to 5...25...30 seconds.
Divert Hexes: Change functionality to: "Remove up to 1...3 (At 14 prot) hexes and conditions from target ally. For each hex and condition removed in this way, that ally gains 10...35 Health and Divert Hexes takes 1 additional second to recharge" 5E 3/4A R2
Song Of Concentration: add: "This skill is easily interruptable."
Searing Flames: Change radius to adjacent.
Strip Enchantment: Increase recharge to 25 seconds.
Savannah Heat: Change functionality to: "Elite Spell. You create Savannah Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, all nearby foes take 5...8...11 (max 60) fire damage for each second this Spell has been in effect. " E15 A2 R15
Searing Heat: Change functionality to: "Spell. Cause Searing Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near this location are struck for 5...17...20 fire damage each second. When Searing Heat ends, foes in the area of effect are set on fire for 3 seconds. " E15 A2 R20
Tenai's Heat: Change functionality to: "Spell. Cause Tenai's Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near this location are struck for 5...17...20 fire damage each second. When Searing Heat ends, foes in the area of effect are set on fire for 3 seconds. " E15 A2 R20

Remove HoH KoTH, Relic Run and Cap Points

For reasons mentioned way to many times, these maps do not work.

KoTH: With points being accumulated every 30 seconds, it comes clear pretty fast who is and who isn't going to win. If you haven't capped after 2-3 minutes, chances are really likely you're simply not going to be able to get enough points to even win anymore, let alone hold the altar for all those points. This results the fact that every KoTH match someone's getting ganked... Be it by resigning out and leaving the third team 1v1 against the holding one, or be it by directly killing a team. No matter who you do, you will always leave someone at a major disbenefit. This map is competitive for the first minute, after that it just becomes luck to whoever can hold till the breakpoint for the last team so they resign out and the rest of the match is a 1v1. Also, did I mention the various capping glitches? Remove this map, it's shit.

Relic Run: Last. Second. Cap. Close to the most uncompetitive, uninteresting and downright random thing in Guild Wars. On top of that, you have to wait 7 minutes before you can actually see who got lucky enough not to get 2v1'd and get a last milli-second cap. Problem lies in the fact that in 3-way, agressiveness isn't rewarded, because you simply can't compete with 2 teams at the same time. You can take one team out, but that will just lead to a gank/2v1, resulting in either your loss, or still a lucky last second cap scenario. I'll agree that there is a difference between good runners and snares and bad runners and snare, but in the end it simply comes down to being as passive as you possibly can in order to "sneak" the winning relics in in the last minute.

Cap Points: Same reason Relic Run doesn't work: 3-way. Agressiveness gets punished because you can not compete with 2 teams at the same time. Splitting for someone's base is always going to invoke some reaction towards you (from either team). In the best case scenario, one of the enemy teams is an unranked PvE team who doesn't realize you just capped their base and leaves it for you till the end of the game. But if that is a reason to keep Cap Points, adieu! This map is all about trying to fight for the center and hoping noone splits for your base. Being good will obviously gain you some advantage, but at the end of the day, you're bound to get ganked by some unknowing PvE team. This map is downright poop. It's like alliance battles, with the difference that you can actually do something usefull in alliance battles.

Bring back Old-School Holding

Classic, no need to elaborate. Had it's flaws, but doesn't even come close to the current maps. On top of that, every single build that got abused during old-school holding was due to skills being broken, not due to the format. It's also, by far, the easiest one to balance.

Remove current maps

Fetid River, Antechamber

Re-introduce old maps

Scarred Earth, Broken Tower, Sacred Temples.

Revert Broken Tower to old-school holding

Revert Courtyard to old-school holding

Rocky Rockstar · Jun 02, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Agree:
-All the skill updates except for one.
-Also vote for the removal of koth, relic and cap points in hoh.
-Removal of Antechamber.
-Bring back Broken tower and Sacred temples

Disagree
-Change to strip enchantments
-Removal of fetid river
-Re introduction of scarred earth

Dont care:
-Old-school holdings

My 2 billion cents:
-Shorten wait time in hoh from 12 min to 6-8 min
-Higher reward for wins( fame+faction (especially fame to get nubs started to go pro)
-Add a merchart and a tolkano to hoh that pops up after match is over(this is a must imo)
-Possibly have a 1 or 2 days a week where its a team of 6 instead of 8 (DISCUSS) to make it more interesting

Masmar · Jun 02, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Conc really doesnt need to be easily interuptable. Its incredible easy to realise when the enemy are going to need to use it & rupt it

Ariena Najea · Jun 02, 2010, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Making this thread to practice my English writing (which has only gotten better over the past 5 years), to create some discussion on what the consensus of the current HA community is, to give my 2 cents and simply for the lulz.

Skill Updates

I would like to deal with several problem builds in HA, aswell as certain problem skills which have been gotten abused for way to long now. Pretty much all of these changes won't affect the rest of PvP in a negative way, and some will even provide new viable options in other formats. (Such as Divert Hexes)

Falling Lotus Strike: 50% failure < 4 critical strikes (BBway, Rt/A way)
"Coward!": add "If target foe isn't KD'd from this skill, this skill is disabled for 3 seconds."
Wounding Strike: 5 second recharge.
Brutal Weapon: increase cast time to 2 seconds, reduce duration to 5...25...30 seconds.
Divert Hexes: Change functionality to: "Remove up to 1...3 (At 14 prot) hexes and conditions from target ally. For each hex and condition removed in this way, that ally gains 10...35 Health and Divert Hexes takes 1 additional second to recharge" 5E 3/4A R2
Song Of Concentration: add: "This skill is easily interruptable."
Searing Flames: Change radius to adjacent.
Strip Enchantment: Increase recharge to 25 seconds.
Savannah Heat: Change functionality to: "Elite Spell. You create Savannah Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, all nearby foes take 5...8...11 (max 60) fire damage for each second this Spell has been in effect. " E15 A2 R15
Searing Heat: Change functionality to: "Spell. Cause Searing Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near this location are struck for 5...17...20 fire damage each second. When Searing Heat ends, foes in the area of effect are set on fire for 3 seconds. " E15 A2 R20
Tenai's Heat: Change functionality to: "Spell. Cause Tenai's Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near this location are struck for 5...17...20 fire damage each second. When Searing Heat ends, foes in the area of effect are set on fire for 3 seconds. " E15 A2 R20

Remove HoH KoTH, Relic Run and Cap Points

For reasons mentioned way to many times, these maps do not work.

KoTH: With points being accumulated every 30 seconds, it comes clear pretty fast who is and who isn't going to win. If you haven't capped after 2-3 minutes, chances are really likely you're simply not going to be able to get enough points to even win anymore, let alone hold the altar for all those points. This results the fact that every KoTH match someone's getting ganked... Be it by resigning out and leaving the third team 1v1 against the holding one, or be it by directly killing a team. No matter who you do, you will always leave someone at a major disbenefit. This map is competitive for the first minute, after that it just becomes luck to whoever can hold till the breakpoint for the last team so they resign out and the rest of the match is a 1v1. Also, did I mention the various capping glitches? Remove this map, it's shit.

Relic Run: Last. Second. Cap. Close to the most uncompetitive, uninteresting and downright random thing in Guild Wars. On top of that, you have to wait 7 minutes before you can actually see who got lucky enough not to get 2v1'd and get a last milli-second cap. Problem lies in the fact that in 3-way, agressiveness isn't rewarded, because you simply can't compete with 2 teams at the same time. You can take one team out, but that will just lead to a gank/2v1, resulting in either your loss, or still a lucky last second cap scenario. I'll agree that there is a difference between good runners and snares and bad runners and snare, but in the end it simply comes down to being as passive as you possibly can in order to "sneak" the winning relics in in the last minute.

Cap Points: Same reason Relic Run doesn't work: 3-way. Agressiveness gets punished because you can not compete with 2 teams at the same time. Splitting for someone's base is always going to invoke some reaction towards you (from either team). In the best case scenario, one of the enemy teams is an unranked PvE team who doesn't realize you just capped their base and leaves it for you till the end of the game. But if that is a reason to keep Cap Points, adieu! This map is all about trying to fight for the center and hoping noone splits for your base. Being good will obviously gain you some advantage, but at the end of the day, you're bound to get ganked by some unknowing PvE team. This map is downright poop. It's like alliance battles, with the difference that you can actually do something usefull in alliance battles.

Bring back Old-School Holding

Classic, no need to elaborate. Had it's flaws, but doesn't even come close to the current maps. On top of that, every single build that got abused during old-school holding was due to skills being broken, not due to the format. It's also, by far, the easiest one to balance.

Remove current maps

Fetid River, Antechamber

Re-introduce old maps

Scarred Earth, Broken Tower, Sacred Temples.

Revert Broken Tower to old-school holding

Revert Courtyard to old-school holding

Agree with most of these, disagree on the following:

SoC - Needs to affect party members only, change to 1s casting
Strip Enchantment - Keep current recharge, require sac of 17-20%
Searing/Tenai's Heat - Use your idea, except apply Burning each second for 0...1 second

Other fixes:

Make Haste - Change duration to 0..6..7 seconds and recharge to 8 seconds
Grasping Earth - Recharge to 30 seconds, recharges 50% faster if two or more foes are affected
Ward Against Foes - Change duration to 4..9..10 seconds and recharge to 10 seconds
Aura of Stability - Lasts for 1/4 its duration on non-party members

Shouldn't matter too much if old-school holding returns, but it couldn't hurt.

Songbringer · Jun 02, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Searing Heat seems better then Savannah Heat there. It has 5 sec's more on the recharge but does a considerable more amount of damage. Savannah maxes at 11 and searing at 20. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Killed u man · Jun 02, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

No? Savannah maxes at 60 after 5 hits.

All I did was lower the recharge of fire spells, but make em do lesser spike damage, and more pressure. This way, they are still viable as general pressure/spam, yet are not auto-blow up enemy team on cap points.

Lord Dagon · Jun 02, 2010, 08:09 PM // 20:09

like most of us here i like and agree w/ most of these changes except for the strip enchanting.

i wouldnt care about the old school holdings but the rest of your idea seems preety aplacable/smart.
heres your award for a great idea that probably will never get introduced*hands you a cookie*.

infymys · Jun 02, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Pretty much agree with everything with regards to the map changes.

Skill suggestions, I don't really care about it anymore.

As for Halls changes, King of the Hill is fine, cap points is fine. Relic run needs to go. No idea what could replace it. And the map needs to be reworked since holding team has way too much of an advantage if it's a 1v1 match.

As for Scarred Earth, which version? The one with a lever where a team that won it's match early would have the opportunity to gank one of the remaining two teams so they could make sure they would face the weaker team? Or the original version where it was a waitfest if one or both teams on the other side of the wall were overly defensive?

Wouldn't matter anyways, since, with the current population of HA, the odds of getting 4 teams on that map are slim and you would just skip it anyways.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 02, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Incoming PvEer input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Skill Updates

Falling Lotus Strike: 50% failure < 4 critical strikes (BBway, Rt/A way)
"Coward!": add "If target foe isn't KD'd from this skill, this skill is disabled for 3 seconds."

Approved.

Quote:

Divert Hexes: Change functionality to: "Remove up to 1...3 (At 14 prot) hexes and conditions from target ally. For each hex and condition removed in this way, that ally gains 10...35 Health and Divert Hexes takes 1 additional second to recharge" 5E 3/4A R2

It doesn't fit the flavor of the skill to have it directly remove conditions. I'd keep that part conditional on how many hexes become removed, keep the heal based only on the number of hexes removed, and keep the heal amount where it's at. The buff to cost, casting, and recharge would be nice, even with the clause to extend recharge.

Quote:

Song Of Concentration: add: "This skill is easily interruptable."

Approved.

Quote:

Savannah Heat
Searing Heat
Tenai's Heat

Everything else aside, can you explain why you want to make these skills last ten seconds instead of five? With the recharges they have, a few elementalists bringing all three of those along can pretty much chain and create a permanent field of fire.

Quote:

Relic Run: Last. Second. Cap.

Can't say anything about the rest of it, but I do agree that this part of the game format is terrible. It should have always been that the first to reach the leading amount of points would be considered the winner, or it just shouldn't have existed.

Quote:

Remove current maps

Fetid River

Haven't played enough HA, tell me why this map sucks. Too much free reign for R-spike or something?

Ariena Najea · Jun 02, 2010, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Everything else aside, can you explain why you want to make these skills last ten seconds instead of five? With the recharges they have, a few elementalists bringing all three of those along can pretty much chain and create a permanent field of fire.

The purpose is to make these skills more pressure oriented than they currently are. It is easy to KD a foe in multiple AoE skills and have them explode, which promotes boring play.

Hopefully the upcoming HA update will be more than just a new map.

superraptors · Jun 02, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

why would u make soc easily interrupted, as it is if u vs any decent team on capping altar maps they will hit ur song like 90% of the time, if u havent aegised which is pretty hard given ur monks do get low, and u need to song asap.

everything else i dont rlly mind, dont see this reviving HA even if its implemented to late by now obvi

Krill · Jun 03, 2010, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Why on earth would you want to keep Burial over Fetid? I know Fetid is rspike friendly but it's way better than what's left of Burial.

I'm just going to paste my comments concerning the map rotation from the revamp HA thread.

--Map Rotation --

1-Underworld
2-Unholy Temples
3-Fetid River
4-Forgotten Shrines (possibly remove)
5-Courtyard
6-Golden Gates
7-Sacred Temples

Full runs are a thing of the past. Objective map sooner to discourage shitways, burial mounds and antechamber out.

--Hall of Heroes --

Cap Points

-Additional cap point near chest spawn
-Bring yellow / red base cap point to area in front of bridge
-Add party buff for holding alter cap point, +10% damage

King of the Hill

-Only available with 3 teams

Relic Runs

-Only available with 2 teams
-Teams use yellow and red bases (no advantage for holding team)

6 or 7 maps would be more than enough considering that full runs are a thing of the past outside double weekends or maybe the peak of a z-quest day. There's a good argument for getting rid of cap points altogether (Forgotten, Antechamber, HoH caps) and it should be considered. KotH only would be great as the only game type for 3 ways in HoH, but relic runs should be left in for 2 ways since 2 way KotH gives the holding team a huge advantage. In that case, relic runs should be changes to the teams using red and yellow bases so they have the same run and opportunity for stair blocks.

I can't believe anyone would want Broken Tower back in the rotation, hello gankway. There's no point in reintroducing Scarred Earth since it would never fill.

Agree with fire AoE, Falling Lotus, Strip Enchant and Brutal nerfs, but do not agree with Coward nerf. Coward is fine as is, yes it's annoying but not nearly as bad as P-Rage was. I would only agree with the SoC nerf if PD is also nerfed.

Reverend Dr · Jun 03, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Why relic running (capture the flag) works in earlier maps (conversely why it doesn't work in halls)

While the 1v1v1 aspect of Halls exacerbates the problem, the core issue with this is actually the format. In earlier maps your team has to push into hostile territory to pick up the relic, then retreat back to your territory. During this push you cannot completely abandon your territory. This will allow the other team to pick up your relic, but more importantly they can kill your ghost and prevent the capping mechanic.

The HA version is completely different. The relic spawns well within your territory and it is difficult to make a significant push into an enemy's base, your team effectively cannot prevent the opposing team from picking up the relic. Instead of bring it back from hostile territory, or even into hostile territory, a team only needs bring it to the neutral part of the map. There is also no way to shut down the capping mechanic. For a "capture the flag" format, this is terrible and it doesn't matter if its 1v1, 1v1v1, 1v1v1v1, etc.

I'm just going to leave with this, as I feel that from a conceptual point relic running in HA is by far the worst designed of the win conditions for these reasons above. This is not to say that I couldn't write a lot of words about the other winning conditions or how those conditions have turned several skills that would otherwise be too niche to consider, into powerhouse skills that must be shut down.

X Ghoul · Jun 03, 2010, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Agreeing with everything you said. What I want is a TIME LIMIT to matches 15-20mins MAX. I'm pretty sure anyone who has played HA has had one of those LONG ASS matches that seem to never end. [ex. my 1hr 6min match in fetid](lost screen)

Sirius Bsns · Jun 03, 2010, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Falling Lotus Strike: 50% failure < 4 critical strikes (BBway, Rt/A way)
"Coward!": add "If target foe isn't KD'd from this skill, this skill is disabled for 3 seconds."
Wounding Strike: 5 second recharge.
Brutal Weapon: increase cast time to 2 seconds, reduce duration to 5...25...30 seconds.
Divert Hexes: Change functionality to: "Remove up to 1...3 (At 14 prot) hexes and conditions from target ally. For each hex and condition removed in this way, that ally gains 10...35 Health and Divert Hexes takes 1 additional second to recharge" 5E 3/4A R2
Song Of Concentration: add: "This skill is easily interruptable."
Searing Flames: Change radius to adjacent.
Strip Enchantment: Increase recharge to 25 seconds.
Savannah Heat: Change functionality to: "Elite Spell. You create Savannah Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, all nearby foes take 5...8...11 (max 60) fire damage for each second this Spell has been in effect. " E15 A2 R15
Searing Heat: Change functionality to: "Spell. Cause Searing Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near this location are struck for 5...17...20 fire damage each second. When Searing Heat ends, foes in the area of effect are set on fire for 3 seconds. " E15 A2 R20
Tenai's Heat: Change functionality to: "Spell. Cause Tenai's Heat at target foe's location. For 10 seconds, foes near this location are struck for 5...17...20 fire damage each second. When Searing Heat ends, foes in the area of effect are set on fire for 3 seconds. " E15 A2 R20

/notsigned list:
Wounding Strike (if you nerf the only elite skill that makes dervishes good, it'd take them completely out of PvP play),
Brutal Weapon (a better nerf would be to increase the recharge to that of the standard conjures *45s*, and since it's a *irremovable* weapon spell, simply reduce the duration to a maximum of 30s),
Searing Flames (it's not that overpowered tbh.. If anything, it can take a burning duration decrease from 7s to 6 or 5, and recharge of 4-5s, but the damage should remain the same *viable*),
Strip Enchantments (one of the few non-elite semi-deep enchantment removals in the game... I don't think that weakening what's left of viable enchantment removals is a good idea with so few enchantment removals in-game that're actually good because it'd then make enchantments that much harder to counter),

/signed list:
The rest...

Reverend Dr · Jun 04, 2010, 06:25 AM // 06:25

HA has a lot of problems with the games format

What we do not need to be doing is getting on a huge tangent about skill balance.

Yes AoE has a lot of problems in tombs. Most of the maps are fairly small. Almost all of the maps are deathmatch styled maps that push teams into slugfests where position hardly matters. Even if the objective is not deathmatch the objectives still favor deathmatch. Capture point capture zones are too small, relic running always has body blocking, KotH has guaranteed AoE damage on ghosts on altar. This issue does not lie with individual AoE skills being too strong (in some cases skills are too strong, but this is felt in many other places than just HA), but with issues in the format. And this is largely going to apply to most any type of skill discussion that will be brought up here.

Ariena Najea · Jun 04, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

HA has a lot of problems with the games format

What we do not need to be doing is getting on a huge tangent about skill balance.

Yes AoE has a lot of problems in tombs. Most of the maps are fairly small. Almost all of the maps are deathmatch styled maps that push teams into slugfests where position hardly matters. Even if the objective is not deathmatch the objectives still favor deathmatch. Capture point capture zones are too small, relic running always has body blocking, KotH has guaranteed AoE damage on ghosts on altar. This issue does not lie with individual AoE skills being too strong (in some cases skills are too strong, but this is felt in many other places than just HA), but with issues in the format. And this is largely going to apply to most any type of skill discussion that will be brought up here.

The problem is that skill changes are far more feasible for ANet to dish out. Supposedly, a new HA map is in the works, but it's only one map, and it may not be much better than what we have now. It makes sense to discuss the most probably changes that could be made to help the format.

Corporeal Ghost · Jun 05, 2010, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Divert Hexes: Change functionality to: "Remove up to 1...3 (At 14 prot) hexes and conditions from target ally. For each hex and condition removed in this way, that ally gains 10...35 Health and Divert Hexes takes 1 additional second to recharge" 5E 3/4A R2

How has no one jumped on this yet? That skill is completely insane. It outclasses multiple heavily-played monk elites by a wide margin. I really can't see anyone not running this, at least until it makes any sort of hexes completely non-viable and is no longer needed. Whether you like playing against them or not, hexes are a healthy component of the game. They're one of the few components left that are worth interacting with.

On top of that, it looks like you want to further neuter AoE options? We're already stretched pretty thin as is. The problem is not the skills here, as you essentially want to nerf an entire class of skills whose usefulness is incredibly questionable outside of HA, despite the existence of exploitable chokes everywhere else in the game. Does this not scream map (or even playerbase), rather than skill problems to you?

If anything, we want more decent AoE options. Bring Splinter back. When people ball in AoE, they need to die. If map design forces people to ball in AoE, maybe the map is problematic. Maybe people are playing it wrong. I don't really want to get into that. The bottom line, though, is that if your AoE is hitting more than two people, it needs to have a dramatic effect on the match. That's the entire function of AoE.

Missing HB · Jun 05, 2010, 09:45 AM // 09:45

I agree with all skill updates and removal you suggested. I will add a list of common and very annoying bugs to support these removals :

On KoTH :
Ghostly hero capping not even on stairs ( most of time , this happens when u re trying to stuck it ) , ghostly hero not trying to cap for 15 sec , ghostly hero who takes 5-6 sec to cast capping skill . Another bug , but not happening much , is when ghostly hero just rezzed , sometimes , he will be like " riding or surfing " while u re bringing it to mid , and will be able to cap from very far .

On Relic :
Well , it's only about stucks. But , the problem with it is that sometimes , you can't even know when you are going to get stucked. It can be like , you keep going through everyone all game , and you get solo stucked by a guy 5 meters away from you , while you are trying to cap last . The solution many people found , however , is to click rez sig while running ( i tried it , you can't really get stucked by doing it ) .
Also , there are minor bugs ,for example when you can cap relic from stairs , from altar , ... ;

I will also add that bug on courtyard : as you can see , if you close the door while you re bringing ghostly hero to altar , he will go back and try to go around . It's then very hard to come back , since your opponent has time to close it again , making ghost go back and etc.... . Aswell , sometimes , ghostly hero is just going through the door , although it is closed . But , however , that door bug is not annoying , since it would only happen in a " kind of gank " situation

Killed u man · Jun 05, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

How has no one jumped on this yet? That skill is completely insane. It outclasses multiple heavily-played monk elites by a wide margin. I really can't see anyone not running this, at least until it makes any sort of hexes completely non-viable and is no longer needed. Whether you like playing against them or not, hexes are a healthy component of the game. They're one of the few components left that are worth interacting with.

On top of that, it looks like you want to further neuter AoE options? We're already stretched pretty thin as is. The problem is not the skills here, as you essentially want to nerf an entire class of skills whose usefulness is incredibly questionable outside of HA, despite the existence of exploitable chokes everywhere else in the game. Does this not scream map (or even playerbase), rather than skill problems to you?

If anything, we want more decent AoE options. Bring Splinter back. When people ball in AoE, they need to die. If map design forces people to ball in AoE, maybe the map is problematic. Maybe people are playing it wrong. I don't really want to get into that. The bottom line, though, is that if your AoE is hitting more than two people, it needs to have a dramatic effect on the match. That's the entire function of AoE.

Oh, you mean like RC in GvG? I don't hear anyone complaining about that skill? Divery Hexes would not outclass hexways. As it stands right now, hexways outclasses balanced. Skill updates proove this over and over again, both in GvG and HA.

As for this hexway being a 'healthy component', have you played GvG post 2005? Hexway is a brainless buttonbasher, and should NEVER even come close to beating a good balanced. Yet recent updates showed that hexway still is as effective as it ever was, despite elites as PnH being available.

As a matter of fact, the only reason why people stop running hexway every time (in GvG) is because they get tired of it or because of a FULL build wars. That being multiple copies of emathic, as much casters as you can, Monks with PnH/multiple hex removals and HB flaggers.

Hexway is not a desirable build, unlike you claim. It's a basic rock paper scissor build, where if a balanced does not carry the right counters (this goes for both HA and GvG) it simply won't win. (Casters can't cast, frontline can't hit) Unless ofcourse the hexway RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up beyond reasonable believe, but that doesn't make the build any more balanced.

The problem with hexway in HA, aside from the fact that hexway is about the easiest build to play since 2007 ish, is that your counters are useless against just about every other team. Rits with convert, paragons with empathic, etc. On top of that, with HA's personal must-bring skill list (song, make haste, etc) you really don't have that much room to counter.

This usually results in hexway beating just about everything but spike heavy builds with redicilous defence (lichway, riftspikes, rspikes, etc).

Divert hexes would give monks a viable anti-hex skill, which is very effective against this truly shitbuild which shouldn't exist in the first place, which is still effective against non-hexways.

It doesn't give you a RoF like effect (like LS does), so you will have to choose between RoF or Aegis, a positive drawback which balances this skill perfectly for HA.
RC still provides more healing, and PnH is still better against pure-hexes. (If you remove 3 hexes and 1-3 conditions, it's recharge is already getting bumped up to 6-8 seconds)
It also has a 3/4 seconds cast, which makes it interruptable against the few hexways with a mesmer who can actually play the game.

Against every other team, unlike PnH, it won't be useless, and you actually got little brother of RC, with about haf the healing, and twice the recharge.

But if you really think hexway should be promoted rather than discouraged, than I think the problem lies with your vision of game-balance rather than my effort to make HA a versatile and fun place to play.

As for Fire AoE: AoE on it's own is broken in PvE. As a matter of fact, every HM farm build involved AoE in one form or the other (Including 600/smiting). AoE on it's own is a gimmicked mechanic. Look at VoD in GvG, people litterally farmed VoD with AoE.

This not 100% to blame on format issues (like you claim) but also the fact that AoE simply is too OP when hitting multiple people. The matter of fact is that AoE is semi-effective when hitting single targets (Rodgorts still pumps bars down, aswell as SH, etc), but is completely off the charts when it' hits multiple targets.

And that wouldn't be that much of an issue, if people had the time to fix their errors (Aka, unball). But because all these AoE skills (Splinter, fire AoE, RoJ) pump out their punishment so fast, the enemy simply gets no chance to redeem itself. This when balling up is not always the result of bad play: Cap Points, people accidently kiting into eachother for 1 second should not get punished with a party wipe, ...

Making AoE a longer lasting, faster recharging effect would result in a more desirable effect: People who ball up for short periods of time don't take zomg-imbalanced damage, but rather half of what it is now, and can then kite out. People who are simply bad, and pay no attention to where they are on the map will keep running into the pools of AoE, resulting in them taking the same damage we have now, or even more (With the fast recharges).

This seems pretty desirable in my eyes. And with the way I set up the skills, you will have 2 AoE spells active at all times on the map. Good players will manage to kite out of them most of the time. Bad players will just run into them over and over again. This seems pretty good in my eyes, no?